Changes

Talk:LinkedData

74,607 bytes added, 15:58, 18 February 2009

→‎February 13th #code4lib planning meeting

== January 27th #code4lib planning meeting ==

~~ ~~

(10:12:04 AM) edsu: ok, so thanks for showing up, i guess there's only a few weeks till this thing goes down

(10:12:41 AM) edsu: the preconf as proposed can be found here: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/LinkedData

(11:10:02 AM) dchud: edsu: just point me at a mic and wind me up

(11:10:16 AM) brocadedarkness: charper: i wish people would look less at the record. you are completely right

~~(11:10:20 AM) zoia: # you are a freak! ~~

(11:10:21 AM) lbjay: charper: and by "people" you mean ex libris? ;)

(11:10:46 AM) edsu: dchud: :) (adding to possible demos section)

(11:29:38 AM) charper: Great group of people to help push these concepts further into reality.

(11:29:45 AM) brocadedarkness: yes thanks a lot (even though i haven't really been paying much attention today... will do better next time)

~~(11:29:50 AM) lbjay: zoia: it's like you've got alzheimers lately ~~

~~(11:29:51 AM) zoia: lbjay: the grass really is greener on the other side &cough; &cough; &cough; ~~

(11:32:12 AM) rsinger: so, do we want a 'practical approaches to making your data more linked/linkable'?

(11:32:13 AM) lbjay: good lord, was that really 1.5 hours?

(12:53:36 PM) rsinger: so we have the individual talks, linked to who did them

== February 6th #code4lib planning meeting ==

(10:05:52 AM) edsu: anyone here for the weekly linked-data thingameebob?

(10:06:15 AM) rsinger: i'm only here for the witty repartee

(10:06:23 AM) rsinger: and the donuts

(10:06:25 AM) lbjay: "lbjay... present"

(10:07:11 AM) ***mjgiarlo is here

(10:08:12 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: you taping this again?

(10:08:36 AM) ***mjgiarlo clicks record

(10:09:32 AM) ***lbjay puts on his serious hat

(10:09:42 AM) edsu: don't do that now :)

(10:10:14 AM) edsu: first order of business (should've had an agenda i guess)

(10:10:49 AM) edsu: lbjay: you had an idea for possibly getting together pre-pre-conference to work through some of the logistics?

(10:11:18 AM) lbjay: edsu: yes

(10:11:39 AM) lbjay: edsu: assuming some of us make it to town on Sunday night

(10:11:56 AM) edsu: i will be

(10:12:05 AM) edsu: iand: are you here?

(10:12:20 AM) ***mjgiarlo votes for meeting over beer.

(10:12:21 AM) lbjay: i can make the drive down. only a little > 1hr

(10:12:23 AM) iand: is anybody really here?

(10:13:23 AM) rsinger: let me see when i get in on sunday

(10:14:11 AM) edsu: iand: you flying into US on the Sunday?

(10:14:42 AM) rsinger: i get to pvd at 6:15

(10:14:50 AM) iand: edsu: I am

(10:15:35 AM) iand: edsu: I think I land at 12:15pm local time

(10:15:55 AM) iand: so I'll be around in the evening

(10:16:08 AM) edsu: iand: way ahead of all of us i guess, so you'd be up for getting together in the evening to go over some of the details of the next day? ... cool

(10:16:59 AM) edsu: rsinger: you be ok too? i guess it would have to be later, maybe 8?

(10:17:02 AM) rsinger: i guess realistically this means i won't be available until ~8pm?

(10:17:11 AM) edsu: maybe over drinks? :)

(10:17:15 AM) rsinger: natch

(10:17:59 AM) iand: edsu: drinks would be a condition of my acceptance :)

(10:18:29 AM) mjgiarlo: Lords Of the Dance pre-conf planning meeting.

(10:19:40 AM) rsinger: so perhaps this morning we come up with a desired outcome and draft a rough schedule of the morning?

(10:20:18 AM) rsinger: i have already thrown my desired outcome in the ring

(10:20:36 AM) edsu: so how much time do you think we have to fill in the am?

(10:20:41 AM) edsu: it starts at 9?

(10:21:16 AM) lbjay: edsu: i'm not sure we've ever said what time it starts

(10:21:18 AM) mjgiarlo: Hopefully no earlier than 9.

(10:21:28 AM) lbjay: 9 seems reasonable

(10:22:00 AM) rsinger: so that gives 3-3.5 hours for education?

(10:22:16 AM) lbjay: rsinger: can you repeat your desired outcome?

(10:22:47 AM) edsu: so lets say 9-12 for the AM session?

(10:22:56 AM) rsinger: lbjay: i would like us to apply our newfound LOD abilities towards a LOD 'preconference proceedings' type site

(10:23:06 AM) edsu: 12:00-1:30 lunch?

(10:23:23 AM) edsu: 1:30-5:00 pm session?

(10:23:26 AM) lbjay: rsinger: righto. i remember now

(10:23:44 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: is your foaf/app idea similar to rsinger's?

(10:23:51 AM) rsinger: app is perhaps a little more automated than i can reasonably expect

(10:23:54 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i guess? yeah?

(10:24:08 AM) edsu: i want to figure out how much time we need to fill in the morning first, if possible

(10:24:44 AM) edsu: like 9:00 - 10:30 &break; 10:45 - 12:00 ?

(10:25:03 AM) lbjay: should we update the wiki as we proceed here? or maybe etherpad?

(10:25:34 AM) lbjay: http://etherpad.com/Bzk4mctKuB

(10:26:16 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: +1

(10:27:36 AM) rsinger: edsu: so, how long for each slot?

(10:27:50 AM) edsu: so i just made up these slots

(10:28:20 AM) lbjay: i can do 20-30 minutes

(10:28:31 AM) mjgiarlo: charper: will you be around on Sunday eve?

(10:28:38 AM) edsu: what i put down for charper linked-data & libraries really feeds into what the swedes have done

(10:28:45 AM) charper: mjgiarlo: planning to be, yeah.

(10:31:17 AM) rsinger: looks like the morning is pretty well filled up

(10:31:18 AM) edsu: charper: i wasn't sure what to put you down for, you've got the verbal gift, so i'd like to tap it yo

(10:31:49 AM) charper: edsu: always willing to blather about pretty much anything.

(10:32:56 AM) rsinger: we probably want something about openvocab.org, too

(10:33:12 AM) mjgiarlo: openvocab seems to tie in with what lbjay suggested.

(10:33:25 AM) rsinger: it seems like throwing lbjay's, jphipp's and iand on openvocab together would make sense

(10:33:35 AM) iand: I am happy to talk about openvocab

(10:34:25 AM) mjgiarlo: iand: were you planning on doing a general RDF intro or an RDF/LOD intro? I know both were mentioned last time.

(10:34:55 AM) rsinger: i thought edsu was going to do the LOD intro

(10:35:06 AM) iand: mjgiarlo: I suggested doing both, but ... what rsinger said

(10:35:14 AM) mjgiarlo: Just wanna make sure we don't have much duplication.

(10:35:32 AM) rsinger: iand: how long is your developer intro?

(10:35:36 AM) lbjay: if the am slots are each 30 we're going to run from 9-12:30

(10:35:36 AM) edsu: i was planning on giving an overview of the day, and a short (hopefully) humorous intro to the semweb/linkeddata effort

(10:35:39 AM) lbjay: approx

(10:35:54 AM) iand: rsinger: I wanted to keep it short...rdf is not that interestign

(10:36:04 AM) rsinger: iand: but relatively important

(10:36:13 AM) edsu: rsinger: right

(10:36:13 AM) lbjay: critical, even

(10:36:18 AM) iand: in 30 mins I could cover rdf and linked data

(10:36:26 AM) charper: not sure the rdf bits have to be too in depth.

(10:36:29 AM) rsinger: i am still not entirely sure about the PM breakouts -- but i'm getting ahead of myself

(10:36:32 AM) iand: charper: yeah me too

(10:36:37 AM) charper: They'll come out further in the other sessions...

(10:36:38 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: do think a 10-15 minute overview of lcsh.info would be of interest? It seems to hit that sweet spot of "I have this data I want to LODify, how do I do it?"

(10:36:51 AM) edsu: charper: have you heard anders talk about libris before?

(10:36:58 AM) edsu: charper: i don't think martin is going to make it

(10:37:01 AM) charper: No, just Martin.

(10:37:08 AM) charper: edsu: I know, he mentioned that.

(10:37:09 AM) rsinger: i figure none of the 'demo' things need to be much more than 15 mins., do they?

(10:37:10 AM) charper: :(

(10:37:40 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i could do that, i've got a shiny new simplified version of lcsh.info i could demo

(10:37:50 AM) edsu: rsinger: yeah, 15 mins for demos

(10:37:52 AM) charper: jphipps might want a bit longer than 15 if he's talking about both registry and rda.

(10:38:03 AM) edsu: indeed

(10:38:32 AM) ***rsinger might not be off the hook anymore

(10:38:54 AM) lbjay: rsinger: do we have an idea of the vocabs to be used for our preconference app? will there be an opportunity to devise some custom terms?

(10:39:09 AM) lbjay: s/app/site/

(10:39:14 AM) rsinger: have we even agreed on that?

(10:39:54 AM) edsu: lbjay: this might be premature but i took a stab at layering some rdfa into http://code4lib.org/2009

(10:39:57 AM) rsinger: just because i like it doesn't mean it has merit :)

(10:40:07 AM) charper: This might give a starting point for vocabs... http://www.eswc2006.org/rdf/

(10:41:04 AM) rsinger: charper: this is *exactly* what i was thinking

(10:41:42 AM) charper: rsinger: kind of those European SW folks to come up with the start of an ontology for us, then...

(10:42:02 AM) mjgiarlo: check the etherpad, we're filling up the AM perfectly if current time estimates are realistic.

(10:42:02 AM) rsinger: it would be sort of cool if it's designed so that an enterprising hacker could extend it to the entire conference

(10:42:21 AM) charper: was just thinking the same thing.

(10:42:48 AM) rsinger: off the hook again!

(10:42:54 AM) rsinger: w00t

(10:43:12 AM) lbjay: so i guess one challenge will be to work that development into some kind of narrative throughout the sessions

(10:44:15 AM) edsu: curl "http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?format=turtle&uri=http://code4lib.org/2009"

(10:44:18 AM) rsinger: lbjay: yeah, seems doable, right?

(10:44:22 AM) edsu: you can see what i layered in there already

(10:44:24 AM) lbjay: rsinger: ayup

(10:45:09 AM) edsu: there's the rdfa highlight tool as well

(10:46:09 AM) edsu: so you'll see: <http://code4lib.org/2009#conference> a swc:ConferenceEvent ; swc:isSuperEventOf <http://code4lib.org/node/266#preconferences> .

(10:46:15 AM) rsinger: sweet

(10:46:22 AM) rsinger: yeah

(10:46:25 AM) lbjay: yep

(10:46:50 AM) edsu: and you can then follow-your-nose to the preconf

(10:46:59 AM) edsu: curl "http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?format=turtle&uri=http://code4lib.org/node/266#preconferences"

(10:47:57 AM) charper: edsu: do you think you can work this into your intro?

(10:48:06 AM) rsinger: hey, that works on my rdfa/foaf: curl "http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?format=turtle&uri=http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/about-me/"

(10:48:14 AM) rsinger: (nothing else seems to)

(10:48:32 AM) rsinger: although obv. some of it is messed up

(10:49:14 AM) edsu: actually reload that last rdfa extract

(10:51:19 AM) edsu: charper: i could maybe work it into the intro yeah

(10:51:55 AM) charper: edsu: that could be good, provide the starting point to that narrative thread.

(10:52:01 AM) rsinger: so, how can we guide the intros/tutorials into this?

(10:52:18 AM) charper: Then even the hypotheticals / demos...

(10:52:30 AM) rsinger: iand: do you think an outcome of your into be that we all have the beginnings of a foaf?

(10:52:32 AM) edsu: i'm not sure why the rdfa distiller isn't distilling the assertions i see with rdfa highlighter, it should be picking <http://code4lib.org/node/288#linked-data-preconf> swc:hasAttendee <http://iandavis.com/id/me>

(10:52:35 AM) charper: Imagine if the talks descriptions had skos pointing to lcsh.info...

(10:52:52 AM) charper: Then those could generate reading lists based on presenters and / or topics...

(10:53:09 AM) iand: rsinger: wasn't planning that outcome, but I could change things to make it more possible

(10:53:26 AM) rsinger: iand: i'm just throwing out ideas, i guess

(10:53:32 AM) rsinger: dunno if they're good :)

(10:53:44 AM) iand: I can use that as an example

(10:54:00 AM) iand: and ask people to follow along

(10:54:07 AM) edsu: i guess i was wondering if we could use the book raffle as a carrot

(10:54:19 AM) edsu: to learning teh rdf

(10:54:24 AM) rsinger: edsu: yes, i still like that idea

(10:55:00 AM) edsu: so we have at least a few people with foaf files: lbjay, iand, mjgiarlo, myself

(10:55:06 AM) lbjay: i'm starting to think my slot is too soon

(10:55:44 AM) lbjay: should maybe come after the two examples: lcsh.info and libris

(10:55:58 AM) rsinger: edsu: i can have what i showed above working by then

(10:56:06 AM) edsu: and i was thinking over the morning, afternoon we could get people to either a) create a foaf file and put it up somewhere b) create an identi.ca/lj/other foaf serving account

(10:56:18 AM) rsinger: edsu: or do you want something a little less hacky?

(10:57:31 AM) rsinger: edsu: curl "http://www.w3.org/2007/08/pyRdfa/extract?format=turtle&uri=http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/about-me/"

(10:58:04 AM) iand: could use http://foafbuilder.qdos.com/

(10:58:13 AM) edsu: aye

(10:58:34 AM) edsu: and then they would basically contact one of us with a foaf file, and we would add them

(10:59:13 AM) rsinger: sure

(11:00:34 AM) edsu: and over the day i'd have a little app running crawling looking for people related to us, within a certain radius, that have an assertion like what i have currently in my foaf: <http://inkdroid.org/ehs> <http://data.semanticweb.org/ns/swc/ontology#attendeeAt> <http://code4lib.org/2009#conference> .

(11:00:44 AM) edsu: and reporting on new people that it has found?

(11:00:54 AM) edsu: who could be randomly picked from for the book raffle?

(11:01:04 AM) edsu: is that too involved?

(11:01:19 AM) edsu: i guess in the end it doesn't even matter, it would just be icing on the cake

(11:01:20 AM) rsinger: i don't think so

(11:01:23 AM) rsinger: yeah

(11:01:45 AM) rsinger: so, ok -- what do we want the "takeaway" to be?

(11:01:58 AM) rsinger: since i think that will help frame the afternoon

(11:02:29 AM) edsu: take away for the am sessions?

(11:02:40 AM) edsu: or for my crazy foaf-book-raffle idea?

(11:02:52 AM) edsu: was thinking we'd save the raffle to the end of the day

(11:03:01 AM) edsu: since it'll prolly take that long to get working :)

(11:03:28 AM) rsinger: no, i mean for the preconf as a whole

(11:04:01 AM) rsinger: right now the PM sort of looks like a free-for-all

(11:04:21 AM) edsu: i think what iand said last time, to get people to realize that they can start doing this stuff in their own applications, with their own data now, would be the ideal outcome

(11:04:36 AM) edsu: rsinger: &laugh;

(11:06:04 AM) rsinger: i think that's fine, but i think having pre-planned to work towards (in various technologies) would make it easier to do that

(11:06:04 AM) lbjay: i have no idea what the afternoon is about anymore

(11:06:05 AM) mjgiarlo: What I'd like the outcome to be is for all attendees to be able to answer the following: "What is linked data and what is its value? How can I LODify my piles of data?"

(11:06:27 AM) rsinger: i think LOD-ifying my piles of data is way too broad and ambitious

(11:07:03 AM) mjgiarlo: Even if they learn it by example, I think that's useful.

(11:07:05 AM) charper: rsinger: why?

(11:07:07 AM) edsu: if data means an existing application though

(11:07:25 AM) charper: I mean, it's too ambitious for an outcome, but as a takeaway?

(11:07:37 AM) ***jbrinley assumed the afternoon would be taking example piles of data and showing how they can be LODified

(11:08:08 AM) rsinger: my fear is that we have two axes, basically: kinds of data and technologies to work with

(11:08:09 AM) lbjay: jbrinley: right. using php, python, java, etc.

(11:08:12 AM) mjgiarlo: Oh, were we talking takeaways for the AM? if so, my bad. Then just my first question.

(11:08:14 AM) edsu: i would prefer to s/data/application/

(11:08:23 AM) rsinger: edsu: me too

(11:09:02 AM) rsinger: that we break up and, in our technology of choice, deliver a certain aspect of a LOD

(11:09:23 AM) rsinger: that we get together occasionally to figure out how to link to each other

(11:09:50 AM) mjgiarlo: I am fine with s/piles of data/application/. Either one is useful.

(11:10:06 AM) charper: and to link outward - dbpedia, opan-calais, &c.

(11:10:40 AM) charper: I think I'd still like to have a data-piles/metadata-heaps track to the afternoon.

(11:10:42 AM) rsinger: i feel like if it's directed on monday, it will give them the experience to s/our application/their data/ in the future

(11:10:54 AM) charper: In case there's other full on metadata nerds there...

(11:11:03 AM) rsinger: the give a man a fish/teach a man to fish deal

(11:11:08 AM) edsu: charper: there will be

(11:11:34 AM) charper: XC people have expressed an interesting in offering us a pile of data in there schema to play with.

(11:11:35 AM) mjgiarlo: Are we talking about takeaways in order to scope the PM sessions?

(11:11:49 AM) rsinger: mjgiarlo: both sessions

(11:11:49 AM) charper: And they're working in a LOD-ready environment.

(11:11:52 AM) edsu: charper: oh yeah, is it already in triples?

(11:12:13 AM) charper: I believe a lot of it is in rdf/xml, yeah.

(11:12:27 AM) rsinger: xc is? really?

(11:12:32 AM) charper: And they're registering a lot of there properties with Diane and Jon.

(11:12:42 AM) edsu: just being able to think in terms of a graph, instead of a document will be new for people i think

(11:12:51 AM) rsinger: me too

(11:13:03 AM) edsu: so it would be valuable to have a pool of data to just rifle through with php, ruby whatever

(11:13:17 AM) edsu: charper: can you look into getting a copy of that?

(11:13:30 AM) edsu: charper: also, can we pin down what you are going to talk about a bit more?

(11:13:32 AM) charper: edsu: Yeah - I'll follow with Jennifer / Dave.

(11:13:48 AM) charper: edsu: sure... wait, you expect me to know in advance?!?!

(11:14:59 AM) mjgiarlo: Right now charper's got a 15-minute post-lunch slot re: "Linked Data and Libraries"

(11:15:13 AM) mjgiarlo: so sayeth the scratchpad.

(11:15:46 AM) edsu: charper: i'm biased, but i like what you have written and said about the potential of library authority data and linked data

(11:16:09 AM) charper: edsu: problem is, you and anders will likely cover much of that.

(11:16:28 AM) charper: My thinking was that I'd talk a bit about my feelings re: *why*

(11:16:30 AM) edsu: charper: yes, but we could go after you

(11:16:36 AM) charper: Mmm - that's true.

(11:17:00 AM) edsu: another option is digging into the outside library world of linked data

(11:17:08 AM) edsu: dbpedia, geonames, freebase, etc

(11:17:15 AM) rsinger: ok, so from the perspective of "we have a bunch of piles of data to play with" -- what can we 'make' with that?

(11:17:28 AM) rsinger: i seriously think a 'practical' application needs to come out of this

(11:17:37 AM) edsu: rsinger: i think the goal w/ the data would be to just get familiar with tools

(11:18:02 AM) charper: I wonder if we could tie it all back to that conference app...

(11:18:21 AM) edsu: i'm game for the conference app idea, but it seems ambitious

(11:18:41 AM) edsu: although, rsinger don't you have a conference appp already, from previous codefest?

(11:19:14 AM) rsinger: well, conferencekeeper -- the diebold-o-matic-o-tron

(11:19:53 AM) edsu: so rather than building something up from scratch i think it would be possible to turn that into a linked-data app possibly

(11:20:18 AM) mjgiarlo: latest idea = charper talks about value of linked authority data, then edsu about lcsh, then anders about libris?

(11:20:19 AM) rsinger: well, i was seriously thinking much more piecemeal than that

(11:20:34 AM) rsinger: but, yes, for the 'glue', we could do that

(11:20:38 AM) charper: I'm just thinking out loud, but what about if we pool together & link a bunch of conf & non-conf data, then see what happens if we dump it into something like exhibit?

(11:21:13 AM) charper: http://code.google.com/p/simile-widgets/

(11:21:38 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i like that i think

(11:21:49 AM) mjgiarlo: k, reflected on scratchpad

(11:21:57 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo++

(11:23:35 AM) edsu: i'm wondering if jphipps should be moved up

(11:24:14 AM) rsinger: ok, so here's what i was thinking, possibly

(11:24:22 AM) edsu: well actually registries goes well w/ openvocab, after lbjay's to explain what to do if there doesn't seem to be a vocab for you to use

(11:24:29 AM) rsinger: we build something SIMPLE to describe the conf/preconf

(11:24:30 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: you don't like openvocab and registries together? ah, okay.

(11:24:36 AM) edsu: no i do

(11:24:37 AM) rsinger: perhaps RDF-only

(11:25:03 AM) rsinger: and then have one of the groups come up with apps that do something with it

(11:25:04 AM) rsinger: like

(11:25:09 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: maybe jphipps' RDA stuff could be broken out and moved up?

(11:25:17 AM) rsinger: calculate the combined "blogworth" of the attendees

(11:25:30 AM) rsinger: or the carbon footprint of the miles traveled to attend or something

(11:25:35 AM) edsu: corey, maybe you could incorporate rda into your linked-authority talk?

(11:25:42 AM) charper: edsu: I could do that.

(11:25:51 AM) edsu: and jphipps can gesture about how the registry is being used in that effort?

(11:26:01 AM) rsinger: gesticulate wildly

(11:26:05 AM) lbjay: i think we need an e-mail list to follow up on what we're discussing here

(11:26:07 AM) charper: It would actually fit with the "other data" too - in talking about the value of library URI's to the rest of the cloud.

(11:26:37 AM) mjgiarlo: lbjay: was pondering that last week.

(11:26:40 AM) edsu: charper: right on

(11:26:42 AM) charper: As I was just pointing out, iand's frbr stuff landed in the BBC's program ontology...

(11:26:57 AM) edsu: charper: i just adjusted your talk title in etherpad, does that seem ok?

(11:27:06 AM) edsu: charper: it did?

(11:27:26 AM) edsu: i think it'll be really important to stress the evolutionary bit about these vocabs

(11:27:32 AM) charper: edsu: sure.

(11:27:39 AM) charper: I don't want to steal RDA from jphipps, though.

(11:28:59 AM) charper: edsu: I still haven't found instance data that uses it, but the namespace shows up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ontologies/programmes/2008-02-28.shtml

(11:29:17 AM) ***edsu wonders if sindice has crawled it yet

(11:30:04 AM) charper: I was poking at that bbc data set, and getting really excited about the spaces where our authority *and* bib data would link rather nicely.

(11:30:05 AM) edsu: so does anyone feel capable of slapping times on the AM sessions?

(11:30:45 AM) edsu: charper: cool, yeah it's really interesting to think about library data being used outside of the context of libraries

(11:31:04 AM) mjgiarlo: I'll take a stab

(11:31:25 AM) charper: mjgiarlo: if I drink enough coffee, I only need 20 min...

(11:31:25 AM) rsinger: not to sound like a broken record...

(11:31:56 AM) rsinger: but what do we think is realistic for the afternoon session?

(11:32:45 AM) lbjay: list created: http://groups.google.com/group/lod-preconf

(11:32:54 AM) lbjay: we can use it or not

(11:33:15 AM) ***rsinger joined.

(11:33:28 AM) edsu: lbjay: you want to invite the people in the list?

(11:33:36 AM) lbjay: I gotta split. I have a date with a chacarerro sandwich

(11:33:37 AM) mjgiarlo: is 1:45 too long to go without a break?

(11:33:38 AM) lbjay: edsu: ok

(11:33:50 AM) ***edsu joined

(11:33:59 AM) rsinger: mjgiarlo: no, i don't think so

(11:34:00 AM) edsu: lbjay: seeyas

(11:34:04 AM) edsu: lbjay: and thanks!

(11:34:10 AM) lbjay: i'll send invites to the planners on the list you sent out

(11:34:11 AM) rsinger: mjgiarlo: ~ the length of a movie

(11:34:24 AM) mjgiarlo: Great.

(11:34:57 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i could talk 15 mins longer i guess

(11:35:04 AM) edsu: and we could break after corey?

(11:35:44 AM) charper: looks like lunch might get pushed back a bit.

(11:35:50 AM) charper: Maybe that makes sense, though?

(11:36:14 AM) charper: 3.5 hours in morning, 3 hours after lunch?

(11:36:36 AM) edsu: people will be crispy and in need of beverage by then

(11:36:45 AM) mjgiarlo: k, revision 3 has times.

(11:37:16 AM) mjgiarlo: comments and edits appreciated

(11:37:39 AM) edsu: i'm pretty happy with that

(11:39:14 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: your intro could be longer if you want, and we could shift the break, add a shorter break elsewhere, etc. I like having charper's talk followed immediately by edsu's and anders's, and also having lbjay's followed immediately by iand's and jphipps's.

(11:39:27 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: don't wanna short-change you.

(11:40:42 AM) charper: mjgiarlo: yeah, the order of things in the morning seems natural, and definitely don't want to short-change edsu.

(11:41:20 AM) mjgiarlo: I am very pleased with the AM.

(11:41:40 AM) edsu: no, it's cool

(11:41:43 AM) edsu: 15 min is better

(11:41:56 AM) edsu: yeah, the am seems pretty solid to me now

(11:42:29 AM) edsu: rsinger: so what do you think of the AM?

(11:42:35 AM) rsinger: looks great to me

(11:42:44 AM) edsu: also, people in channel who might be attending what do you think of the AM :)

(11:42:50 AM) mjgiarlo: adjourn soon and solidify the PM on the list and/or next Friday?

(11:42:53 AM) edsu: am => http://etherpad.com/Bzk4mctKuB

(11:43:01 AM) mjgiarlo: ^ That was my stomach speaking.

(11:43:08 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: aye

(11:43:17 AM) edsu: ok so that's a wrap then i guess?

(11:43:25 AM) mjgiarlo: Though I certainly have no desire to get in the way of momentum, or shut people up. :)

(11:43:44 AM) edsu: i'm going to cut n' paste this into the wiki?

(11:44:19 AM) charper: edsu - yeah, I think that's ready for the wiki.

(11:44:38 AM) rsinger: i think the morning looks great

(11:44:43 AM) rsinger: i have no idea about pm

(11:44:55 AM) ***charper still contemplating how to work rda/frbr/xc/piles-o-metadata into pm...

(11:45:02 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: can you pop the logs into the discussion too?

(11:45:17 AM) edsu: charper: yeah, this is something we can chat about next time?

(11:45:17 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: will do. prolly in the PM, since I like to clean it up a bit.

(11:45:22 AM) edsu: ok

(11:46:11 AM) charper: esdu: yep. next time it is, or on the new list...

== February 13th #code4lib planning meeting ==

(10:06:15 AM) ***MrDys rings the 10am bell

(10:07:51 AM) mjgiarlo has changed the topic to: Welcome to code4lib! (http://code4lib.org) -- code4lib 2009 linkeddata preconf planning

(10:11:24 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: sorry, train had hiccup prevented me from getting here on time

(10:16:54 AM) edsu: so uh, is anyone here for this linked-data preconf thing?

(10:17:01 AM) lbjay: edsu: present

(10:17:05 AM) rsinger: edsu: here

(10:17:09 AM) jdatema: here

(10:17:10 AM) charper: edsu: me too.

(10:17:17 AM) edsu: rawk

(10:17:23 AM) ***MrDys raises his hand

(10:17:32 AM) dlovins: present

(10:17:52 AM) edsu: dlovins, MrDys hey, welcome :)

(10:17:59 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: ain't no thang, I'm trying to do too many things at once.

(10:18:35 AM) edsu: so, before we start talking abuot the afternoon session, should we just see if there's anything else we want to talk about for the AM?

(10:18:58 AM) charper: edsu: We should chat about how to squeeze dchud in without disrupting timeline.

(10:19:04 AM) edsu: how do people feel about the am schedule? http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/LinkedData#02.2F23_AM_Tutorial.2C_Attendees:_48

(10:19:06 AM) charper: I'm happy to cut my talk short to make space for him.

(10:19:10 AM) edsu: charper: good memory, yeah

(10:19:27 AM) edsu: charper: how about we just cut into the q&a?

(10:19:47 AM) ***lbjay would also be happy to go for less time

(10:20:08 AM) MrDys: I kinda feel like q&a will happen as it goes on and doesn't really need a dedicated slot at the end

(10:20:33 AM) charper: edsu: just keep in mind that my having a full half hour is dangerous - might end up delving into DCAM at some stage, and no one wants that.

(10:20:48 AM) rsinger: no, we do

(10:20:56 AM) edsu: yeah, I do too

(10:20:59 AM) rsinger: charper: i mean, that's exactly what i want, anywya

(10:21:03 AM) lbjay: edsu: seriously. give dchud 15 of my minutes

(10:21:10 AM) edsu: charper: i want you to have enough time to get into something

(10:21:26 AM) edsu: lbjay: ok, charper are you ok with that?

(10:21:37 AM) ***lbjay is uncomfortable with the idea of taking more time than others who are probably way more qualified to talk about this stuff

(10:21:42 AM) edsu: i have a hunch dchud is going to want to talk about his light-weight-linked-data (aka no rdf)

(10:22:15 AM) charper: okay - that works out well for me.

(10:22:16 AM) edsu: where should we slot in dchud?

(10:22:30 AM) rsinger: probably at the end

(10:22:34 AM) edsu: if we shorten lbjay's piece ?

(10:22:51 AM) edsu: i think what dchud has to say might work well after corey maybe

(10:22:54 AM) rsinger: hrm

(10:23:09 AM) jdatema: or just before

(10:23:12 AM) charper: edsu: I was thinking that too, or maybe after iand

(10:23:13 AM) rsinger: i think the vocab selection thing is so important

(10:23:23 AM) charper: rsinger: i definitely agree.

(10:23:24 AM) edsu: since i think he's going to anchor it in what libraries could be doing with linked data

(10:23:35 AM) rsinger: ah

(10:23:50 AM) charper: edsu: he being dchud?

(10:23:54 AM) edsu: vocab selection, openvocab and registries will all be about finding using vocabs

(10:24:00 AM) rsinger: i thought it was gonna be all "don't sell me your rdf"

(10:24:04 AM) ***jbrinley votes for a 90 second dchud interlude after each presentation

(10:24:26 AM) edsu: rsinger: if he does that's ok -- i think he wants to talk about stuff from his blog post

(10:24:43 AM) jbrinley: perhaps call it a rebuttal

(10:24:46 AM) edsu: -> http://onebiglibrary.net/story/caching-and-proxying-linked-data

(10:24:50 AM) lbjay: zoia++

(10:24:53 AM) rsinger: edsu: ah, yes

(10:25:07 AM) edsu: i think dchud, hopefully, can articulate more about the 'so what can i do with this'

(10:25:07 AM) charper: edsu: if that's the case, it's a really important thing to cover.

(10:25:34 AM) edsu: rsinger: i'm just guessing though

(10:25:41 AM) charper: Given that that was just on the edges of a topic on the public-lod w3c list...

(10:25:52 AM) rsinger: edsu: i guess it would be helpful to know exactly what he wants to do

(10:25:54 AM) edsu: charper: yeah, the link rot one/

(10:26:16 AM) rsinger: because if it's all "this is great and all... but what if..."

(10:26:37 AM) rsinger: then i think it's best to come at the end when people have their heads around the environment

(10:26:37 AM) edsu: rsinger: yeah, true

(10:27:28 AM) charper: rsinger: he could serve as intro to the breakouts in the afternoon.

(10:27:39 AM) rsinger: IF that's what he wants to talk about

(10:27:45 AM) mjgiarlo: I agree re: having dchud be the closer.

(10:27:59 AM) rsinger: it's too vague right now

(10:28:17 AM) edsu: lets give him the benefit of the doubt, and ask him on the linked-preconf discussion list

(10:28:41 AM) rsinger: +1

(10:28:47 AM) mjgiarlo: so for now, no changes to AM schedule. works for me.

(10:29:05 AM) mjgiarlo: or was there agreement on killing the Q&A? or shortening lbjay's bit?

(10:29:53 AM) edsu: ok, i'm going to edit the schedule, one sec

(10:36:16 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: "why the web?" == dchud's bit?

(10:36:41 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: yeah, maybe you could change it? i tried to summarize his blog post with a pithy 3 worder

(10:39:12 AM) mjgiarlo: my only question about putting dchud and a break right after charper is that I thought we talked about keeping charper, anders, and edsu in a little block.

(10:44:13 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i thought i put dchud after charper, before the break?

(10:44:37 AM) edsu: http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/LinkedData#02.2F23_AM_Tutorial.2C_Attendees:_48

(10:44:58 AM) mjgiarlo: right, but I thought there was talk of keeping charper, then anders, then edsu in a block? now we've got dchud and a break in there.

(10:45:08 AM) mjgiarlo: catapanoth: hey terry!

(10:45:13 AM) catapanoth: hey mike

(10:45:25 AM) edsu: catapanoth: glad you could make it

(10:45:27 AM) catapanoth: OK. Already started.

(10:45:31 AM) edsu: (heheh)

(10:45:44 AM) catapanoth: me too.

(10:46:32 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: so yeah i guess we could push me and anders before the break?

(10:46:46 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: keep the pace up? it's just an extra 1/2 hour i guess?

(10:46:59 AM) charper: mjgiarlo: Is the reason for grouping edsu, anders and I to focus on the authorities stuff?

(10:47:08 AM) mjgiarlo: charper: I believe that was it, yes, thanks. :)

(10:47:10 AM) edsu: dchud is a good speaker, so i think including him early when the caffeine is still in effect is good

(10:47:10 AM) charper: I could break my talk up into 2 15 min segments too.

(10:47:24 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: Yeah, good point.

(10:47:37 AM) mjgiarlo: and I do like that the break comes a bit earlier now.

(10:48:59 AM) bfrederi: got here a little late.

(10:49:08 AM) edsu: no problem, we all kinda started late

(10:49:11 AM) mjgiarlo: well, let's leave the schedule as is and see what dchud wants to do, and move on to the nebulous PM session. we can finalize that next Friday or on the mailing list?

(10:49:23 AM) edsu: bfrederi: we're just reviewing the am schedule http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/LinkedData#02.2F23_AM_Tutorial.2C_Attendees:_48

(10:49:44 AM) rsinger: yeah, w/o knowing what dchud actually wants to say, i think it's hard to schedule him

(10:50:30 AM) edsu: rsinger: are you ok w/ him where he is now ... and we can adjust later when we here what he's going to talk about?

(10:50:42 AM) rsinger: i don't care where he goes, i guess

(10:50:48 AM) edsu: rsinger: if it's going to be fuck-that-rdf, then maybe put him later in the day?

(10:51:01 AM) edsu: rsinger: but i don't think that's what he wants to talk about

(10:51:27 AM) rsinger: it just seems like if he's going to be asking tough questions about the 'web as platform' then it makes sense for people to be most informed going into it

(10:51:45 AM) rsinger: and i don't mean 'critical' questions

(10:52:04 AM) charper: There are good practical tough questions to be asked.

(10:52:20 AM) edsu: rsinger: ok, so you are still leaning towards the end of the day then?

(10:52:27 AM) charper: I'd agree that if he's talking about things from his post, it's very practically oriented, and should set up the breakouts.

(10:52:30 AM) rsinger: but dchud's at his best if people are at their smartest

(10:52:51 AM) rsinger: edsu: end of day? or end of morning?

(10:53:06 AM) mjgiarlo: end_of_AM++

(10:53:22 AM) jdatema: point of his post seemed to be about the need for caching (even P2P distribution), which sets up practical questions

(10:53:31 AM) mjgiarlo: btw, the dchud post we're talking about is the "proxying and caching" one?

(10:53:33 AM) jdatema: end_of_AM++

(10:53:56 AM) mjgiarlo: I'm already in there, BREAKING ALL YOUR GOOD WORK

(10:55:15 AM) mjgiarlo: k, new proposal is up.

(10:55:39 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: right on

(10:56:03 AM) mjgiarlo: on to PM planning?

(10:56:06 AM) edsu: so any more questions/concerns about the morning?

(10:56:18 AM) edsu: i have one more thing i'd like to float

(10:56:27 AM) rsinger: ok

(10:57:08 AM) edsu: i was wondering if it made sense to give out some printouts of key documentation for people to have

(10:57:25 AM) rsinger: i think this is really good idea... but... what?

(10:57:29 AM) mjgiarlo: the four tenets/principles/whatevers?

(10:57:29 AM) lbjay: edsu: that was something i considered volunteering for

(10:57:34 AM) edsu: cool uris for the semantic web, how to pubish linked data

(10:57:41 AM) rsinger: but printed out?

(10:57:49 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: yeah, that too

(10:57:53 AM) lbjay: edsu: i can do it. and bind them even.

(10:57:54 AM) mjgiarlo: Would be good reading for flights home.

(10:58:04 AM) edsu: lbjay: are you serious?

(10:58:11 AM) jbrinley: edsu: if it's something we'll need for reference during the pre-conf, yes. if it's not, and it's available online, just give us URLs

(10:58:21 AM) ***lbjay loves a chance to fire up the CombiBind apparatus

(10:58:27 AM) mjgiarlo: I like the idea of sticking paper in their hands.

(10:58:28 AM) edsu: jbrinley: i dunno, it might come in handy during the afternoon

(10:58:34 AM) edsu: jbrinley: not so much for the AM

(10:58:37 AM) ***lbjay likes handouts

(10:58:50 AM) ***edsu does too

(10:58:59 AM) mjgiarlo: It's easier to dismiss one URL among the hundreds they will acquire over the course of the conf.

(10:59:03 AM) edsu: if it's just a url, it's easy to ignore

(10:59:05 AM) catapanoth: the cool uri's doc is pretty short, and would be good to have in hand

(10:59:18 AM) edsu: catapanoth: aye

(10:59:24 AM) catapanoth: perhaps encourage people to print it out and bring it?

(10:59:34 AM) lbjay: so lets settle on a list of materials i guess

(10:59:39 AM) mjgiarlo: put paper in their hands and they can refer back to it, keep it at their desks, etc.

(10:59:41 AM) ***jbrinley has a good filing system for URL (i.e., delicious), not so much for paper

(10:59:44 AM) edsu: well if lbjay can do it, i'd like to have them to give out

(10:59:47 AM) edsu: lbjay: can you really do it?

(10:59:49 AM) lbjay: something that adds up to < 50 pages i'm hoping

(10:59:53 AM) rsinger: i don't mind packets, i would discourage "volumes"

(10:59:54 AM) lbjay: edsu: yup

(11:00:02 AM) edsu: lbjay: yeah, should be less than 50 for sure

(11:00:12 AM) rsinger: < 20, i would hope

(11:00:20 AM) mjgiarlo: the two edsu mentioned are really key.

(11:00:33 AM) ***rsinger "books"

(11:00:45 AM) mjgiarlo: and probably subsume the four tenets thang.

(11:00:45 AM) ***rsinger feigns horror.

(11:01:00 AM) edsu: i like the four tenets one too, it's short

(11:01:03 AM) mjgiarlo: so +1 to cool_uris and how_to_publish

(11:01:05 AM) edsu: and it could be the first doc

(11:01:10 AM) mjgiarlo: true 'nuff

(11:01:17 AM) edsu: it's where it all started after all

(11:01:58 AM) edsu: lbjay: so less than 50 pages, and 50 copies?

(11:02:08 AM) lbjay: yep

(11:02:30 AM) lbjay: ~20-30 would be great

(11:02:43 AM) charper: The how to doc hits almost 50p on it's own.

(11:02:51 AM) edsu: charper: oh it does?

(11:02:52 AM) charper: cool uris is much shorter.

(11:02:55 AM) lbjay: maybe one page could be a bibliography of stuff that doesn't make the cut

(11:03:08 AM) charper: edsu: according to print preview.

(11:03:13 AM) edsu: hmm ok

(11:03:20 AM) rsinger: charper: the lod how to?

(11:03:24 AM) lbjay: charper: really?

(11:03:25 AM) edsu: but that would be 25 double sided

(11:03:29 AM) mjgiarlo: +1 to bibliography page

(11:03:34 AM) lbjay: right, double sided fo sho

(11:03:42 AM) rsinger: yeah, totally +1 to bibliography

(11:03:46 AM) rsinger: In bibo

(11:03:54 AM) rsinger: lbjay: your printer does bibo, right?

(11:03:57 AM) edsu: rsinger: hahaha, that would be awesome

(11:04:12 AM) edsu: we could print out the bibliography in turtle tho

(11:04:22 AM) lbjay: ha +1

(11:04:27 AM) rsinger: awesome

(11:04:43 AM) charper: rsinger: that would be too good.

(11:04:56 AM) edsu: anyhow, so it sounds like this is an option, i'll work on the bibliography on the wiki, and lbjay you can figure out what we can fit in?

(11:04:59 AM) lbjay: there were four things i read over the summer that were responsible for my aha moment. trying to remember what the other two were.

(11:05:05 AM) lbjay: edsu: yep

(11:05:09 AM) charper: Only other doc I can think of that's pretty central is TBL's original design note that started this whole "Linked data" thing.

(11:05:09 AM) charper: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html

(11:05:12 AM) edsu: lbjay: cool, lets try to remember those 4

(11:05:29 AM) catapanoth: +1 on the design issues doc.

(11:05:38 AM) lbjay: charper: that was one

(11:05:49 AM) edsu: yeah, that was the 4 tennant's we were talking about earlier, cryptically

(11:06:01 AM) lbjay: maybe one or two of the important w3 docs too...

(11:06:52 AM) rsinger: http://research.talis.com/2005/rdf-intro/

(11:07:51 AM) lbjay: http://delicious.com/tag/linkeddata+tutorial is like a broken record

(11:07:56 AM) charper: rsinger: don't think I've looked at that Talis intro before - good stuff. Love Homer eating the SemWeb Stack.

(11:08:34 AM) rsinger: charper: that was my a ha moment

(11:08:41 AM) lbjay: no slides please. need to keep data:ink ratio high

(11:08:56 AM) rsinger: lbjay: no, that's for the bibliography

(11:09:10 AM) edsu: http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html :-)

(11:09:27 AM) lbjay: well, if they were really good slides i guess

(11:09:35 AM) charper: edsu++

(11:09:48 AM) charper: Add a photocopy of the first 10 pages of "Weaving the Web".

(11:09:56 AM) rsinger: lbjay: no, really, i just mean for the bibliography

(11:10:31 AM) lbjay: rsinger: i know. just now thinking a couple of figures/images wouldn't hurt

(11:10:42 AM) edsu: ok so we all agree (i guess) that giving out some little packet is a good idea, we can continue to discuss on the linked-data preconf list?

(11:10:57 AM) charper: Just the homer slide, for levity and to hammer home the point....

(11:11:19 AM) charper: Ties to that design issues note, and Martin's quote from the Talis podcast about SemWeb folks focusing on the Sem and forgetting about the Web.

(11:11:21 AM) lbjay: edsu: i think it's key. having something tangible to take away and review is always a + for me

(11:12:03 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: +1

(11:12:03 AM) MrDys: cuts down on spending the entire time copying URLs and notetaking

(11:12:07 AM) MrDys: so +1 from me

(11:12:28 AM) edsu: lbjay: you don't need $$ (again)?

(11:12:36 AM) jdatema: +1 for handout

(11:12:45 AM) edsu: lbjay: you have magic book reprap machine or something?

(11:13:08 AM) lbjay: edsu: yep, here at work. consider it "sponsorship" by EL

(11:13:14 AM) edsu: lbjay: sweet

(11:13:23 AM) mjgiarlo: lbjay++ # excellent.

(11:13:51 AM) charper: lbjay: Thanks for that.

(11:14:00 AM) edsu: lbjay++

(11:14:14 AM) edsu: ok, so anything else about the AM we want to talk about, before diving into the pm?

(11:14:26 AM) charper: pm scary...

(11:14:31 AM) ***charper shudders

(11:14:55 AM) rsinger: edsu: i don't think so

(11:15:07 AM) edsu: cool, so how do we even start thinking about the PM?

(11:16:01 AM) charper: edsu: still conceptualized as hands-on breakout sessions?

(11:16:23 AM) edsu: charper: in my mind, yes, with some time at the end to regroup

(11:16:27 AM) rsinger: i promise i will keep from promoting my concept

(11:16:34 AM) edsu: charper: i guess there were some people not signed up for the AM who are in the PM though

(11:17:06 AM) edsu: rsinger: what was that concept again?

(11:17:13 AM) charper: edsu: That could still be okay.

(11:17:16 AM) rsinger: no

(11:17:20 AM) rsinger: i said i wouldn't

(11:17:25 AM) mjgiarlo: Could use the last half-hour of the AM session to drive the PM session, though we should still prepare now and next week. Maybe we could put some feelers out on list?

(11:17:32 AM) edsu: talking about it isn't necessarily promoting it :)

(11:17:47 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i like that idea

(11:18:12 AM) charper: edsu: rsingers proposal was the idea of representing the preconf as LOD if I remember.

(11:18:19 AM) charper: Which I liked.

(11:18:20 AM) edsu: i think part of the success of the PM will be staying flexible to accomodate where the interest is

(11:18:39 AM) edsu: i'd still like to encourage people to create a foaf for themself

(11:18:48 AM) rsinger: yes, that's part of my idea

(11:18:50 AM) edsu: and publish it somewhere

(11:19:04 AM) eby_: c4l09: go foaf yourself

(11:19:14 AM) mjgiarlo: eby_++

(11:19:47 AM) eby_: coffee++

(11:19:50 AM) rsinger: rsinger foaf:knows <dick@cheney.com>

(11:19:57 AM) ***edsu adds "go foaf yourself"

(11:19:57 AM) ***mjgiarlo added that to the wiki

(11:20:01 AM) catapanoth: I'd like to see some in-depth discussion of implementation: say designing and setting up all that HTTP 303 crap

(11:20:14 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: whoops :)

(11:20:22 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: just added to "possible outcomes" but feel free to shift

(11:20:55 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: k, i removed mine :)

(11:21:12 AM) edsu: catapanoth: right on, that's a good one too

(11:21:23 AM) catapanoth: and on the other end, actual examples of processing rdf: what libraries exist in different languages, lessons learned, etc...

(11:21:37 AM) edsu: catapanoth: one of the authors of the http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-vocab-pub/ is going to be there

(11:21:43 AM) edsu: catapanoth: jonphipps

(11:21:50 AM) catapanoth: nice.

(11:21:56 AM) mjgiarlo: catapanoth++ # great ideas

(11:22:07 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: you adding it?

(11:22:21 AM) mjgiarlo: sher.

(11:22:45 AM) edsu: add it above the possible outcomes if you can

(11:23:12 AM) catapanoth: someone also mentioned earlier a recommendation system based on measuring distance in graphs, love to hear more about that.

(11:23:32 AM) edsu: the crafty rob sanderson (azaroth)

(11:23:39 AM) edsu: who (alas) won't be there

(11:24:07 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: add to session topics, you mean?

(11:24:12 AM) edsu: yea?

(11:24:29 AM) edsu: i like the idea of a Go FOAF Yerself session too honestly

(11:24:47 AM) mjgiarlo: k, 's what I did. (though I put it at the top, but the order there shouldn't matter (yet))

(11:25:03 AM) edsu: yeah, they were mostly be parallel anyhow

(11:25:20 AM) catapanoth: yes, I think the go FOAF is a great idea.

(11:25:32 AM) rsinger: basically i think we should just have go foaf yourself, some aggregation via a representation of the pre-conf and then build a few demo consumers

(11:25:45 AM) ***lbjay likes it

(11:25:45 AM) edsu: how about people that want to talk about processing rdf graphs with their favorite language?

(11:26:12 AM) mjgiarlo: and focus on the practical angles catapanoth suggsted: tools for consuming, and options for how to implement all the http/conneg/etc. stuff.

(11:26:38 AM) catapanoth: + on processing graphs

(11:26:39 AM) edsu: so there's two main angles

(11:26:45 AM) mjgiarlo: sounds like the PM session is going more unconf/hackfest style, which I would dig.

(11:26:53 AM) edsu: publishing and consuming

(11:27:02 AM) lbjay: edsu: are you talking concurrent tracks or sequential?

(11:27:11 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: yeah, i like it too, most people will be burnt anyhow

(11:27:18 AM) mjgiarlo: I think we're talking concurrent, lbjay

(11:27:50 AM) edsu: lbjay: i was thinking concurrent

(11:28:03 AM) lbjay: so some folks will skip the foaf creation

(11:28:08 AM) rsinger: how about two blocks?

(11:28:17 AM) rsinger: of concurrent groups?

(11:28:21 AM) lbjay: safe to assume several will already have a foaf file

(11:28:26 AM) rsinger: yeah

(11:28:36 AM) edsu: i'm afraid that some people will generate the foaf, and maybe use it, and see it aggregated, but come away without seeing how much data there is out there already

(11:28:41 AM) rsinger: it's also safe to assume that it won't take the whole hour and a half to create one

(11:28:57 AM) lbjay: rsinger: right

(11:29:23 AM) charper: people could also jump between sessions.

(11:29:35 AM) rsinger: well that depends

(11:29:36 AM) charper: Say we split into these, one on aggregation, one on publishing.

(11:29:38 AM) edsu: yeah, i think people should be encourage to float, and even leave

(11:29:41 AM) edsu: if they get bored

(11:29:47 AM) lbjay: GTFO

(11:29:52 AM) edsu: and to create new groups as needed

(11:29:54 AM) charper: The publishers finish there stuff, and that puts the aggregators in a position to do something with it.

(11:29:57 AM) rsinger: right, but if it takes, say, 45 minutes to build your foaf

(11:30:17 AM) rsinger: and you go to the python rdf graph processors

(11:30:44 AM) edsu: i was thinking of suggesting to people to build a foaf file right at the beginning of the day

(11:30:46 AM) rsinger: and they've already gone over what it is how to use and are just trying apply it towards existing content

(11:30:48 AM) edsu: to get in on the book raffle

(11:30:48 AM) lbjay: do we also assume they will have a place to stick their foaf? or should we figure out foaf hosting?

(11:31:06 AM) edsu: so people could hack around at creating a foaf when they get bored during the AM

(11:31:06 AM) catapanoth: there's a book raffle?

(11:31:09 AM) lbjay: ooh, right. book raffle is the carrot

(11:31:54 AM) rsinger: what if i don't get bored?

(11:31:55 AM) edsu: catapanoth: yeah, nothing stunning but -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/inkdroid/3251002290/in/set-72157613284027719/

(11:32:03 AM) mjgiarlo: rsinger: then you're not trying hard enough.

(11:32:09 AM) edsu: rsinger: then you can work on it in the afternoon?

(11:32:14 AM) rsinger: plus i figure some people are going to need guidance, i would think

(11:32:15 AM) catapanoth: i like books

(11:32:19 AM) edsu: rsinger: in the Get FOAFed session?

(11:32:30 AM) rsinger: edsu: yeah

(11:32:34 AM) edsu: rsinger: yeah, definitely

(11:32:39 AM) gsf: can we just assume the half that know foaf can help the other half?

(11:32:57 AM) edsu: gsf: i'm hoping yes

(11:32:58 AM) lbjay: can we not have distracting spinoff sessions in the am?

(11:33:01 AM) rsinger: i think we have a bit of a conflict of scope

(11:33:10 AM) charper: rsinger: how so?

(11:33:13 AM) edsu: and there are foaf creators on the web people can use if need be

(11:34:04 AM) rsinger: charper: well, i'm a little worried that the afternoon is getting a little more advanced than our target audience

(11:34:39 AM) gsf: lbjay: as i read it, edsu's not calling for spinoff sessions, just individual hacking during the am

(11:34:44 AM) gsf: lbjay: which can't be stopped

(11:35:50 AM) mjgiarlo: I think it's worth mentioning the FOAF stuff in the first talk of the AM, but I agree with lbjay that maybe we shouldn't encourage that.

(11:35:53 AM) charper: rsinger: doesn't the concurrency help with that?

(11:36:14 AM) charper: rsinger: some folks doing a bit more advanced things if they're really chomping at the bit to work with something existing?

(11:36:24 AM) rsinger: charper: yes, but that's why i think it's important to organize that a little better

(11:36:47 AM) rsinger: charper: because it's the advanced people that are going to have to show the beginners how to do these things

(11:37:02 AM) lbjay: mjgiarlo: right. "In the PM we'll be working with everyone to create a FOAF file. If you're bored and want to do your earlier have at it (but don't bug us with questions)"

(11:37:12 AM) rsinger: basically, i think the beginners are the ones to set the pace of the PM

(11:37:20 AM) mjgiarlo: lbjay++ # works for me

(11:37:53 AM) azaroth: catapanoth: The idea was that you can measure the total distance between subjects in terms of the graph across all pairings

(11:38:02 AM) lbjay: can i just say, i think we're overestimating the possibility of boredom

(11:38:10 AM) edsu: rsinger: good point

(11:38:40 AM) lbjay: i mean, we have at least one theatre major among the presenters

(11:38:41 AM) edsu: lbjay: would you be ok with that, what you quoted?

(11:38:53 AM) charper: So long as we're all in the same room, can't folks who have a foaf and know foaf both float/help and design work on consuming / aggregating apps?

(11:38:55 AM) rsinger: i think blocking out a time for 'all hands on deck' for foafing yourself is going to have to be the way to go

(11:38:56 AM) edsu: i wanted to make sure people who were only there for the am could win a book

(11:38:58 AM) lbjay: edsu: yeah, sure

(11:39:21 AM) rsinger: edsu: well, there's always the conference that we can hand it out

(11:39:23 AM) edsu: rsinger: the first thing after lunch maybe?

(11:39:28 AM) rsinger: edsu: yes, exactly

(11:39:31 AM) edsu: rsinger++

(11:39:38 AM) mjgiarlo: charper: i'd be more than happy to do the foaf float.

(11:39:38 AM) edsu: then we break up from there?

(11:39:54 AM) lbjay: +1

(11:40:09 AM) rsinger: yes

(11:40:38 AM) rsinger: how much? 30 mins? 45 mins?

(11:40:40 AM) lbjay: 30-45 minutes, 1st thing after lunch

(11:40:40 AM) charper: mjgiarlo: me too.

(11:40:44 AM) edsu: i like the sounds of that myself

(11:40:56 AM) edsu: catapanoth: what do you think?

(11:41:05 AM) edsu: MrDys: ?

(11:41:26 AM) charper: edsu: I like that too.

(11:41:34 AM) charper: We've currently got:

(11:41:35 AM) charper: 12:30 - 14:00 -- Lunch 14:00 - 16:00 -- Breakout Sessions 16:00 - 17:00 -- Regroup/Wrapup

(11:41:41 AM) azaroth: catapanoth: Then build a recommender system based on clustering, using the distances between result sets

(11:41:50 AM) charper: So, 14:00-14:30/45 would be FOAFing yourself.

(11:41:52 AM) edsu: jbrinley: ?

(11:41:53 AM) lbjay: i think that time frame is reasonable so long as obstacles, such as hosting, are removed

(11:42:02 AM) edsu: catapanoth: k :)

(11:42:08 AM) charper: That leaves ~hour for anything else - what to do with that, then....?

(11:42:11 AM) jbrinley: edsu: ?

(11:42:14 AM) rsinger: lbjay: well, there's always identi.ca

(11:42:24 AM) lbjay: rsinger: was thinking that too

(11:42:27 AM) MrDys: I'm open to that...I've always found FOAF incredibly dry and boring, but if it can be shown that it's not then, please, open my eyes

(11:42:29 AM) edsu: jbrinley: just wondering if you are following the initial plan for the pm and if it makes sense for you

(11:42:58 AM) jbrinley: edsu: haven't been paying much attention, sorry

(11:43:14 AM) lbjay: MrDys: i would say lacking in gravitas, but not dry or boring

(11:43:43 AM) rsinger: MrDys: yeah, definitely the outcome is that we want to show the potential of creating data like that

(11:43:51 AM) MrDys: I guess my interest would be in seeing how FOAF can be used, rather than sitting down and hacking out a FOAF profile

(11:44:15 AM) charper: rsinger: but how do we do that without invoking the PM-scope problem you mentioned before?

(11:44:16 AM) lbjay: MrDys: exactly, but don't you need a FOAF file first?

(11:44:40 AM) MrDys: lbjay: or you could use existing ones to demonstrate

(11:44:51 AM) charper: Currently the afternoon topics list on wiki includes a bunch of working w/ rdf in [lang]

(11:44:56 AM) charper: Are we scratching that?

(11:45:02 AM) rsinger: no clue

(11:45:11 AM) MrDys: I just think that the level of people at the preconf will know enough to hack out some valid XML

(11:45:19 AM) lbjay: MrDys: or you could create some DOAP content instead and link it into our preconf graph somehow

(11:45:52 AM) rsinger: charper: personally, i think the "working with rdf in [lang]" should have an end result planned

(11:45:55 AM) rsinger: charper: and hack on that

(11:45:57 AM) lbjay: MrDys: its not the xml. it's the uris and the mixing of vocabularies

(11:45:57 AM) mjgiarlo: charper: I think that makes sense in the publishing/consuming examples catapanoth mentioned earlier.

(11:45:59 AM) rsinger: charper: or a couple

(11:46:02 AM) charper: lbjay: My question is, where will our preconf graph live, and is part of the afternoon looking at how to build something that actually uses that graph.

(11:46:12 AM) ***lbjay looks at rsinger

(11:46:16 AM) rsinger: ?

(11:46:27 AM) MrDys: lbjay: sounds good then

(11:46:33 AM) rsinger: so, the python "consumers" figure out the miles traveled to the preconf

(11:46:57 AM) charper: rsinger: oh - I see. That makes sense.

(11:46:57 AM) rsinger: and the php "consumers" figure out the blogworth

(11:47:09 AM) rsinger: or... something

(11:47:20 AM) rsinger: i'm just throwing out really /simple/ project ideas

(11:47:33 AM) charper: rsinger: can we do that in the hour+ between foafing and wrap-up?

(11:47:42 AM) rsinger: others can try to do something more complicated with it if they have the initiative

(11:47:58 AM) rsinger: i would *think* so -- but not sure

(11:48:02 AM) charper: Can we identify a few leads on those sessions?

(11:48:11 AM) lbjay: charper: could we use a semanitic wiki to build the graph?

(11:48:14 AM) charper: Someone on the PHP side who knows ARC2 well enough to play, etc.

(11:48:33 AM) charper: lbjay: I was thinking the same thing - either Sem Media Wiki, or even Drupal w/ the RDF Module.

(11:48:55 AM) mjgiarlo: we can always go until 4:30pm if we need extra hackin' time

(11:49:12 AM) mjgiarlo: and shorten the regroup/wrapup

(11:49:20 AM) edsu: sorry i got pulled away

(11:49:21 AM) lbjay: charper: right. and use the conference vocab so that folks can link in their FOAFs/whatevers

(11:49:39 AM) ***lbjay has misplaced the link to that conference vocab

(11:50:44 AM) edsu: i got started on a little app for crawling foafs

(11:50:49 AM) edsu: looking for conference attendees

(11:50:58 AM) edsu: which i was going to put a crappy web front end on

(11:51:09 AM) edsu: which could deliver the preconf graph

(11:51:13 AM) edsu: at a URL

(11:51:37 AM) edsu: the idea being that as the day went on and people got linked up, more people would appear on a page

(11:52:00 AM) lbjay: edsu: how do the attendees link in their data?

(11:52:07 AM) MrDys: edsu: I like that

(11:52:15 AM) jrochkind1: Hmm. Windows XP, driving me crazy.

(11:52:31 AM) charper: edsu: definitely good. Throw the growing graph on-screen between talks and during breaks....

(11:52:34 AM) edsu: lbjay: check out http://lackoftalent.org/michael/foaf.rdf#mjg and http://inkdroid.org/ehs.rdf

(11:52:53 AM) eby_: rsinger: talis api service question

(11:53:06 AM) edsu: basically just <http://inkdroid.org/ehs> swc:attendeeAt <http://code4lib.org/2009#conference> . (in your foaf profile)

(11:53:07 AM) rsinger: eby_: i'll try to answer

(11:53:26 AM) lbjay: edsu: right, but for your app to crawl and find them...

(11:53:36 AM) edsu: lbjay: that's the tricky part

(11:53:50 AM) lbjay: edsu: that's what i thought the semwiki would be good for

(11:53:53 AM) eby_: rsinger: is the transform service limited to xml outputted from the talis store or can i feed it non-talis xml uri's

(11:54:08 AM) rsinger: lbjay: http://www.eswc2006.org/rdf/

(11:54:09 AM) edsu: lbjay: people would add themself to the page?

(11:54:21 AM) eby_: rsinger: http://www.talis.com/tdn/platform/reference/api/transform

(11:54:34 AM) edsu: lbjay: as long as people are hooked up to someone else at the conference

(11:54:36 AM) rsinger: eby_: you can feed it anything, i think

(11:54:38 AM) lbjay: edsu: or... we could say to everyone... "OK, turn to your right. Add that person to your foaf as a foaf:knows"

(11:54:40 AM) edsu: lbjay: via foaf:knows

(11:54:48 AM) lbjay: edsu: right

(11:55:01 AM) lbjay: that could be kinda cool actually

(11:55:03 AM) edsu: lbjay: i think something like what i started at http://inkdroid.org/bzr/c4libbers/crawl.py can work

(11:55:12 AM) mjgiarlo: edsu: should the object of that predicate be http://code4lib.org/2009#conference or http://code4lib.org/node/266#linked-data-preconf ? I guess it doesn't really matter? :)

(11:55:29 AM) charper: edsu: both?

(11:55:33 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: yeah, could be both

(11:55:37 AM) rsinger: eby_: yeah, you can feed it anything

(11:55:48 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: i see you did both, which is correct i think

(11:55:51 AM) rsinger: eby_: you just need a URL for the XML and a URL for the XSLT

(11:56:02 AM) eby_: rsinger: thanks

(11:56:03 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: but i was thinking (if it works) it could be used to give out books to *everyone* at the conference

(11:56:03 AM) rsinger: eby_: and they need to be accessible via curl

(11:56:27 AM) edsu: mjgiarlo: but i don't want to get ahead of myself

(11:56:50 AM) ***mjgiarlo nods

(11:56:56 AM) rsinger: i figured everyone would just write down their uri

(11:56:59 AM) edsu: anyhow, lbjay i like your idea of using the semantic wiki

(11:57:09 AM) rsinger: and one of the breakout groups would be to publish the preconf lod

(11:57:18 AM) edsu: lbjay: do you feel like you could own that part of it?

(11:57:30 AM) lbjay: i'm really liking the idea of asking each person to make FOAF friends with the person adjacent to them. to facilitate the crawling.

(11:57:31 AM) rsinger: the semantic wiki, of course, would be an easier solution

(11:57:42 AM) edsu: lbjay: and i'll try to get this crawler/data dumper working?

(11:57:47 AM) lbjay: ok

(11:57:48 AM) edsu: i think we should do both if we can

(11:57:58 AM) edsu: semantic wiki in general is a really useful thing to cover

(11:58:00 AM) lbjay: i'll own the semwiki part

(11:58:10 AM) edsu: lbjay++ # rock

(11:58:21 AM) ***lbjay has been meaning to try that out anywho

(11:58:38 AM) edsu: yeah, i'd love to learn more about it too

(11:58:43 AM) edsu: this is semantic media wiki right?

(11:58:51 AM) lbjay: edsu: that was my intention

(11:58:55 AM) edsu: nice

(11:59:00 AM) charper: lbjay++

(11:59:05 AM) charper: (again)

(11:59:36 AM) charper: lbjay: are you saying you could have a sort of a sandbox up somewhere?

(11:59:48 AM) edsu: charper: how about that rochester data?

(11:59:51 AM) mjgiarlo: folks who have a clearer idea of how the PM will be structured, feel free to capture that on the wiki. lots of distractions for me today.

(11:59:54 AM) lbjay: charper: i guess that's what i'm saying ;)

(12:00:03 PM) edsu: lbjay: do you need a machine to put it on?

(12:00:12 PM) lbjay: edsu: i could use reallywow

(12:00:18 PM) lbjay: edsu: other suggestions?

(12:00:19 PM) edsu: lbjay++

(12:00:23 PM) charper: edsu: Do we still want to look into the pile-o-data thing, or is that getting ahead of ourselves?

(12:00:24 PM) lbjay: ok, cool

(12:00:38 PM) edsu: charper: well so the foaf data will be one pile of data (hopefully)

(12:00:52 PM) edsu: but it might be nice to have a pile of library data

(12:00:55 PM) edsu: to play with

(12:00:59 PM) ***lbjay 's stomach growls

(12:01:07 PM) charper: edsu: I'll ping Jennifer today.

(12:01:10 PM) edsu: shoot, we are kind of out of time

(12:01:12 PM) rsinger: hrm

(12:01:23 PM) lbjay: @decide grinder or thai

(12:01:24 PM) zoia: lbjay: go with thai

(12:01:25 PM) edsu: also, i think it would be useful for people to see how much data is out there

(12:01:34 PM) edsu: on the web, that library data could be linked to

(12:01:40 PM) rsinger: is the rochester data 'out there', though?

(12:01:43 PM) rsinger: ah

(12:01:44 PM) edsu: the actual linking of data is the hard problem imho

(12:02:01 PM) edsu: i don't think the rochester data is out there

(12:02:17 PM) charper: rsinger: no, the rochester data isn't out there (yet).

(12:02:24 PM) edsu: i wonder if mmmmmRob's rdf/openlibrary data is available

(12:02:27 PM) rsinger: par for the course with them

(12:02:39 PM) rsinger: edsu: i don't think so

(12:02:46 PM) MrDys: what about the book data in freebase?

(12:03:00 PM) edsu: yeah, i don't know if they make their rdf dumps available

(12:03:03 PM) charper: This was part of why I started thinking Drupal - the XC folks have a whole Drupal toolkit planned.

(12:03:09 PM) edsu: it's definitely crawlable from freebase

(12:03:25 PM) rsinger: i guess i look at the PM as a very finite period of time

(12:03:48 PM) edsu: rsinger: i think you are right to

(12:04:00 PM) edsu: it'll blow by pretty quick

(12:04:15 PM) rsinger: and i look back at our chicago sprint thing... where there was no clear intended outcome

(12:04:15 PM) edsu: i'm really worried thought that people will miss the point that it's not just about FOAF

(12:04:19 PM) rsinger: and nothing got done

(12:04:41 PM) rsinger: because everything we could think of -- there was no way to do it one day

(12:04:50 PM) edsu: yeah

(12:05:07 PM) rsinger: edsu: that's why i think we need to build little apps that show how these things work in other ways

(12:05:08 PM) bseitz left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).

(12:05:19 PM) rsinger: edsu: that the foaf is just a means to the end

(12:05:24 PM) rsinger: edsu: and also a metaphor

(12:05:32 PM) edsu: rsinger: so what do you don't think people putting a foaf together, seeing it automatically harvested, and (perhaps) visualized, and maybe winning a book is an outcome?

(12:05:50 PM) anarchivist: charper: re: drupal - there's a NY semweb meetup during code4lib about rdf + drupal

(12:05:58 PM) rsinger: edsu: i think that's a great outcome

(12:06:23 PM) charper: anarchivist: I know - the timing's rough. Also, Brooklyn Poly's doing a drupal camp that includes an RDF session.

(12:06:23 PM) edsu: talk more about the little apps idea

(12:06:48 PM) rsinger: edsu: but i think throwing out some reasonably small 'visualization' ideas would help people get started

(12:07:39 PM) rsinger: edsu: i think even something like "show the delegate's point of origin on exhibit' would be a good start

(12:07:42 PM) edsu: any of you drupaler's played with the rdf stuff that they are cooking in?

(12:08:06 PM) rsinger: edsu: although i like the side effect of actually trying to use that to calculate distance or carbon footprint or something

(12:08:07 PM) anarchivist: edsu: the vocab import stuff could prove ueful

(12:08:08 PM) jdatema: edsu: yeah

(12:08:10 PM) edsu: would make for a nice afternoon session ...

(12:08:22 PM) jdatema: put the NISO ISQ article in it

(12:08:34 PM) jdatema: has a SPARQL endpoint

(12:08:44 PM) jdatema: might be nice for demo

(12:08:51 PM) charper: edsu: I'm just starting to play with drupal, and I'm getting kind of excited about it.

(12:08:59 PM) edsu: woah, i didn't realize they were doing sparql, i thought it was mainly modifying templates to emit rdfa, and some vocab control

(12:09:14 PM) charper: Maybe a parallel to lbjays Semantic Media Wiki session.

(12:09:20 PM) lbjay: For anyone sticking around the area post-conf, i saw that Peter Suber is doing a talk on open access at the Berkman center on Friday

(12:09:22 PM) edsu: charper: yes

(12:09:28 PM) edsu: charper: they are very similar

(12:09:48 PM) rsinger: i mean, i look at: http://www.eswc2006.org/rdf/

(12:09:56 PM) rsinger: and see a ton of possibilities of what to do with it

(12:10:17 PM) mjgiarlo: eby_: the latest version has more helpful error output, 0.9.2, if you don't have that one yet. I hope that it gets promoted out of the sandbox soon so it can take advantage of automatic updates, but we'll see.

(12:10:19 PM) jdatema: drupal RDF modules (http://drupal.org/node/222788) and SPARQL (http://drupal.org/project/sparql)

(12:10:31 PM) edsu: rsinger: cool, so if i gave you a dump of the foaf data that was crawled somebody could build that right?

(12:10:50 PM) rsinger: edsu: that is the sort of thing i'd like to work on, yeah

(12:10:55 PM) edsu: rsinger++

(12:11:06 PM) edsu: rsinger: so i'll focus on making the crawled data available

(12:11:20 PM) edsu: rsinger: and the little view that lists attendees

(12:11:32 PM) edsu: rsinger: would that work?

(12:11:53 PM) edsu: rsinger: we can try it out next week, as some of us add the attended assertion to our foafs

(12:12:09 PM) jrochkind: There seriously seems to be no way to get MS Communicator to STOP automatically starting up on XP.

(12:12:17 PM) rsinger: edsu: well, wait

(12:12:18 PM) catapanoth: Speaking of SPARQL, maybe it should be a topic in the am?

(12:12:41 PM) mjgiarlo: if some folks can edit the PM stuff on the wiki, that'd be swell. I will post today's log later on. (Not that we're done, but yeah.)

(12:13:00 PM) edsu: mjgiarlo++

(12:13:36 PM) ***lbjay thinks SPARQL is a Day 2 topic

(12:13:49 PM) rsinger: edsu: what did i just agree to?

(12:13:54 PM) edsu: heheh

(12:13:57 PM) ***charper agrees w/ lbjay

(12:14:11 PM) MrDys is now known as MrDys_lunch

(12:14:14 PM) edsu: building something useful given a URI to pull the foaf-data from

(12:14:19 PM) charper: SPARQL just doesn't fit in the allotted time, though I suspect it will get a mention or 3.

(12:14:32 PM) catapanoth: OK. SPARQL in the PM then.

(12:14:33 PM) edsu: edsu: which you can do the day of if you want

(12:14:35 PM) jrochkind: rsinger re ar-jdbc/h2, I get it, thanks. ar-jdbc has _something_ to do with jruby of course. :)

(12:14:38 PM) edsu: s/edsu/rsinger/

(12:15:02 PM) charper: edsu: I talk to myself a lot too.

(12:15:03 PM) edsu: rsinger: but i'm personally skeptical that it's possible to hack something pretty like that eswc site in a few hours

(12:15:13 PM) mjgiarlo: can have SPARQL (or other topics that get displaced?) be a breakout session on days 2-4.

(12:15:15 PM) rsinger: edsu: i agree

(12:15:36 PM) rsinger: edsu: all i'm saying is take the data and aggregating it

(12:15:49 PM) rsinger: for people to crawl

(12:15:54 PM) rsinger: and make pretty things like that

(12:16:03 PM) charper: edsu: Isn't that all the ESWC page does anyway?

(12:16:07 PM) edsu: rsinger: i'm offering to provide one crawled view

(12:16:16 PM) charper: It's basically a list of links to rdf files, right?

(12:16:21 PM) catapanoth: mjgiarlo: breakouts for the overflow is a good idea

(12:16:25 PM) rsinger: edsu: yeah, that's all i'm asking :)

(12:16:37 PM) rsinger: edsu: and i'll help provide the starting point

(12:17:08 PM) edsu: well i was thinking of using mjg, iand, mine, others foaf files as the seed

(12:17:17 PM) edsu: the conference already has a URI

(12:17:29 PM) edsu: so it doesn't need a "starting point"

(12:17:44 PM) rsinger: ok

(12:17:45 PM) ***mjgiarlo adds breakouts idea to wiki

(12:17:51 PM) edsu: unless i'm missing something

(12:17:54 PM) rsinger: why don't i just show up and learn something

(12:18:10 PM) charper: edsu: when my office is put back together on Tue or Wed I'll send you my foaf uri.

(12:18:20 PM) edsu: charper: cool

(12:18:51 PM) edsu: if all the organizers could get a foaf uri before the pre-conf i think we will be in good shape

(12:19:36 PM) edsu: rsinger: ahh i get it now ... sorry, i'm slow

(12:19:50 PM) dbs: follow up with a code4lod conference where people worked on lod-enabling common library apps, that would be pretty cool. I think.

(12:19:58 PM) edsu: rsinger: you really do want something to do :)

(12:20:31 PM) edsu: dbs: i was kind of hoping that was what the afternoon was going to be (in the beginning)

(12:20:40 PM) charper: code4lod++

(12:20:55 PM) edsu: dbs: "I've got this webapp, how do i make data available from it using this shit?"

(12:21:12 PM) lbjay: mjgiarlo: do we want to break up the Resources section of the wiki into "Handout materials" vs. the rest

(12:21:19 PM) dbs: edsu: yeah, but the PM hours will disappear very quickly

(12:21:26 PM) edsu: but i think what catapanoth suggested, re doing the publishing right, will get to that

(12:21:28 PM) eby_: open_shit++

(12:21:34 PM) dbs: as the call of beer grows harder to resist

(12:21:38 PM) charper: dbs: by this summer, RDF will be in testing, a lot of stuff will be in Daine/Jon's registry, XC might have some of their toolkits out....

(12:21:45 PM) rsinger: edsu: yeah, i was just thinking of how to represent the preconf as lod

(12:21:45 PM) charper: s/RDF/RDA

(12:22:06 PM) edsu: rsinger: but i guess i stole your idea?

(12:22:28 PM) dbs: charper: we'll be living in an Evergreen fairyland by then, and might be able to do more interesting things than just focusing on migration :)

(12:22:38 PM) edsu: rsinger: actually i think you can go about it your way

(12:22:44 PM) catapanoth: must go. thanks for all the effort put into this. the preconf will be fun, i'm sure.

(12:22:47 PM) mjgiarlo: lbjay: makes sense to break it up, why not?

(12:22:56 PM) mjgiarlo: lbjay: handout vs. bibliography?

(12:23:03 PM) edsu: rsinger: however it is, and i can do it my way (crawling foafs), and jay can go about it his way with sem media wiki

(12:23:07 PM) lbjay: mjgiarlo: right. i can do that.

(12:23:11 PM) rsinger: edsu: if we split up into 'producers' and 'consumers'... why not?

(12:23:38 PM) rsinger: i just think we have a small window of opportunity to prove that this shit is useful

(12:23:39 PM) edsu: and maybe jay dateman can go about it his way with drupal?

(12:23:44 PM) lbjay: someone remind me, did we want "Cool URIs for Sem Web" or "Cool URIs Don't Change"?

(12:23:47 PM) edsu: datema

(12:23:57 PM) charper: lbjay: for SemWeb

(12:24:00 PM) edsu: i was thinking the former

(12:24:05 PM) lbjay: righto

(12:24:21 PM) edsu: rsinger: well everyone will be a producer of some kind if we can get them to do a foaf profile

(12:24:21 PM) mjgiarlo: former

(12:25:00 PM) rsinger: edsu: but i was thinking of something a little more heterogeneous

(12:25:08 PM) edsu: rsinger: like what?

(12:25:22 PM) rsinger: edsu: more than FOAF on FOAF action

(12:25:36 PM) edsu: rsinger: well if people FOAF -> dbpedia, freebase

(12:25:40 PM) edsu: in their interests etc

(12:25:48 PM) edsu: that'll be more than foaf right?

(12:25:50 PM) charper: re: bibliography, you folks see the recent W3C:TAG finding on self-describing web?

(12:26:03 PM) edsu: yes, that's a good one to add i think

(12:26:17 PM) charper: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/selfDescribingDocuments.html

(12:26:25 PM) rsinger: ok

(12:27:08 PM) edsu: charper: i really like this doc, because it's very holistic

(12:27:30 PM) charper: edsu: I know - I liked that it covered the non-RDF approaches, particularly the MicroFormats world.

(12:27:49 PM) edsu: and atom

(12:28:06 PM) charper: Sort of presents a path from URIs through XML, Atom, Microformats, to RDF & RDFa, GRDDL etc.

(12:28:17 PM) edsu: aye

(12:28:23 PM) charper: All tie together, and I like the notion of recursive self description.

(12:28:45 PM) mjgiarlo: maybe we can just hand that out and go to the pub.

(12:29:03 PM) charper: pub4lod?

(12:29:34 PM) edsu: ties in well with fielding's Hypermedia as the Engine of Application State

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